马云卸任前最后一次英文专访：用书卷气洗掉自己身上商人的气息（附视频&对话稿）

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9月10日教师节当天，阿里巴巴集团创始人马云发出题为“教师节快乐”的公开信（▶马云双语公开信◀）宣布：一年后的阿里巴巴20周年之际，即2019年9月10日，他将不再担任集团董事局主席，届时由现任集团CEO张勇接任。

在接受彭博社采访时，马云说，“我可以从比尔·盖茨身上学到许多东西。我永远不可能像他一样富有，但有一件事我能做得更好，就是早一点退休，我会在教育事业里有所作为，我可以做的很独特、与众不同，用我脑子里的一些东西。”

马云在采访中表示，“大家很快就会知道的。我筹备了一个马云基金会，所有那些我已经筹备了十年的事情。我认为我有一天会回去当老师，可能很快就会。我做这件事比当阿里巴巴CEO更擅长。”

Bloomberg专访马云中文版

Bloomberg专访马云英文版

1964年9月，马云出生于杭州的一个曲艺家庭。杭州这座历史悠久的城市已经成为了全球高科技的枢纽、创业精神的堡垒，而原因之一就是阿里巴巴的总部位于杭州。马云于1999年创办了Alibaba.com，开展B2B电子商务业务，初始资金来自18名联合创始人共同出资60,000美元。

通过多年的发展和软银集团的投资，阿里巴巴已经蜕变成为一家巨型企业，足以主宰品牌的命运。消费者通过阿里巴巴的电商平台订购商品，去年包裹数量达到一天5500万个。

对熟悉马云的人来说，他专注教育丝毫不令人意外。马云曾频繁地谈到教育对自己的重要性，以及学生时代的一些缺点，包括两次高考落榜的经历。

2013年，在淘宝十周年庆典上，48岁马云单膝下跪宣布卸任阿里CEO，哽咽地说着“相信年轻人会比我们做得更好”。

而2018年9月10日，这一天既是中国的教师节，又是马云的54岁生日，马云选择在这一特殊日子宣布计划，立志以后将精力更多地放在教育公益事业上，可想而知他对教育的深深热爱。

Bloomberg专访马云对话稿精选版

Q: 访问开始，我想问你怎么看待，作为阿里巴巴集团董事局主席的角色与你公益使命之间的关系？

A:像阿里巴巴这样的公司，拥有很多很多的资源、人才和影响力。每个月使用我们服务的用户就有6亿。我担心如果我们不把这种爱、尊重和责任感放到我们的商业模式里面，不将这些融入到我们员工身上，阿里巴巴这个巨人也能摧毁很多东西。能做好事、也能做坏事。人们说科技非常冰冷，你要让这个组织有温情，让员工有温情。

Q: 你在公益方面正在取得成功吗？

A: 10年前我说要把我们年收入的0.3%拿来做公益，来保护环境，来做教育。那会儿没人在意这件事，只是营收的0.3%，那个时候我们没啥营收。没关系。董事局批准说，去做吧。现在我们的营收很大了。我说，我们必须坚持这么做，不是利润的0.3%，而是营收的0.3%。

Q: 说到科技，你认为科技如何能用以实现你对于变革教育的愿景？

A: 过去百年，我们教给学生的是知识、科学、产业，但在未来，我们要教育孩子则是关乎创新、创意、建设性，你要怎么做机器做不了的事情，或者机器不可能做得比人类好的事情。这是教育的关键。我一直在思考这个问题。

Q: 这是你关注的事情。

A: 是的，我可以是老师，年轻创业者的导师。我不把自己称为成功的商业人士，但我在生活中是成功的。

Q: 当你与你西方的朋友们沟通时，这个能有助于消除分歧吗？
A: 我希望可以，也认为会的。有一样东西我们是共同的：中国人和美国人都有爱、尊重和信任的心灵。这是我们应该有的共同语言。就像我说的，第一次技术革命带来了一战，第二次技术革命带来了二战，现在我们身处第三次技术革命中，会发生什么？我们不能有战争，如果一定要有战争，那应该是面向贫穷的战争、面向疾病的战争、面向环境破坏的战争。我们应该一起去面对。我们应该找到共性，携手合作，那就能建立起信任。要去抱怨很容易，去指手画脚也很容易。但我们需要有人站出来说，这是问题，我们一起去解决，就能转变成我们所有人的机遇。我希望这是我能去做的事情。

Q: 相对中国很多科技公司来说，你聘请了更多的女性员工？性别平等对于阿里巴巴来说多重要？

A: 非常重要。上个世纪的竞争是肌肉的竞争，本世纪的竞争是智慧、体验和关怀的竞争。我们公司有超过50%的员工是女性，34%的高管是女性。这是阿里巴巴的成功秘诀之一。我们为拥有众多女性领导者感到非常骄傲。这就是软实力，柔性的力量，而不是机枪炮弹式的力量。这是关怀的力量。

Ma, who turns 54 Monday, had already started to hand off responsibilities years ago, giving up the chief executive officer post in 2013. Still, he has remained executive chairman and continued to wield tremendous influence within the company. He has been the public face of the company -- and indeed China’s technology industry -- while Daniel Zhang serves as CEO with a new generation of management in support.

“Jack stepping down won’t affect the company too much because he hasn’t been looking after daily business for sometime and Daniel Zhang has been taking on the majority of managing responsibilities,” said Steven Zhu, an analyst with Pacific Epoch. “Alibaba has done a lot of preparation for talent supply and nurturing.”

An Alibaba spokesman declined to comment but advised citing the SCMP’s story. An earlier story by the New York Times said Ma would step down Monday.

Alibaba, now valued at more than $400 billion, has expanded well beyond its original focus on e-commerce into cloud computing, digital payments and investing in China’s startups. Ma’s departure is a reflection of confidence in current management, which is controlled by 36 partners including Zhang.

“I have full confidence in my team and in the partner structure, which lots of investors don’t like,” Ma said in his interview with Bloomberg. “I think some day, and soon, I’ll go back to teaching. This is something I think I can do much better than being CEO of Alibaba.”

Ma said he sees himself as an accidental executive. He was an English teacher before moving into the business world with Alibaba’s founding almost 20 years ago. He now has a net worth of more than $40 billion according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index. He didn’t indicate if he would give away his money or put it into a trust as other billionaires have done.

“I’ve prepared a Jack Ma Foundation. All these things that I’ve been preparing for 10 years,” he said. “There’s a lot of things I can learn from Bill Gates. I can never be as rich, but one thing I can do better is to retire earlier.”

Ma was born in September 1964 to Chinese traditional musician-storytellers living in Hangzhou, an ancient capital that’s become a global high-tech hub and bastion of entrepreneurship, in part because of Alibaba’s base there. He started Alibaba.com in 1999 as a business-to-business marketplace, backed by $60,000 from 18 co-founders.

With savvy deals and an investment from SoftBank Group Corp., it’s now morphed into a behemoth that can make or break brands. Customers use its e-commerce platforms to order products that last year saw package deliveries reach 55 million a day. Ma also controls Ant Financial, the online financial platform that runs China’s largest mobile payment system and money-market fund. The business has more than 870 million users via payment system Alipay and its affiliates.

Alibaba has one of the strongest management teams in corporate China and, even if he steps down, Ma is likely to still have a role in setting top level strategy, said Brock Silvers, managing director of Kaiyuan Capital.

“When Jack Ma speaks longingly of retirement from Alibaba, there’s no reason not to take him at his word,” said Silvers. “On a day-to-day basis, Alibaba shareholders probably have little to fear should the charismatic Ma pull back a bit further."

A focus on education wouldn’t surprise keen followers of Ma, who has spoken frequently of its importance to him and some of his shortcomings as a student, including failing China’s national university exam twice.

“I was not considered a good student but I improved, we keep on learning all the time. So I want to devote most my time to this,” Ma said.

During his time as chairman, he has helped guide growth at home and overseas while also spearheading Alibaba’s 2014 initial public offering, the biggest ever. Ma was among the first foreign business leaders to meet with Donald Trump after his election.

Ma has thrived in the spotlight as he became a much sought-after guest for conferences around the world, even as tensions between China and the U.S. have risen over trade. But he has also said in the past that he isn’t happy being the wealthiest person in China, where vast personal fortunes have only emerged in recent years and are subject to intense scrutiny.

As someone who has met the leaders of the world’s two largest economies, Ma sees his future philanthropy as a way to bridge the divide between them

“People in China and America, one thing we have in common is the heart of love and respect,” Ma said. “This is a common language we have. The first tech revolution caused WWI, the second caused WWII, now we are a third revolution, what’s gonna happen? It should be a war against poverty, disease et cetera.”

If he were to leave the company he founded in a Hangzhou apartment, it would remain controlled by the partnership structure, which enables a group of executives at Alibaba and affiliates to decide on board nominations.

"It’s the system which I think I have contributed to along with my team and this will be able to make the company last long,” Ma said.

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